anarchisto
Ingressou: 6 Jun 2013
Publicações: 79
Publicado: 31 Out 2017, 12:24
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Publicado: 31 Out 2017, 12:24
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One example is the United States 1892 ½ Dollar (Columbian Exposition) coin, which was originally sold at a premium, but eventually 2 million of them were released into circulation, where they stayed for decades.
If it's been in circulation in the millions, isn't it supposed to be a circulating coin, regardless of the original intent? (currently it's listed in the catalog as "non-circulating")
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces4396.html
Oklahoman
Numista team
Ingressou: 20 Dez 2015
Publicações: 3063
Publicado: 31 Out 2017, 23:29
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Publicado: 31 Out 2017, 23:29
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Intent of the issuer has to be considered.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
anarchisto
Ingressou: 6 Jun 2013
Publicações: 79
Publicado: 1 Nov 2017, 10:22
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Publicado: 1 Nov 2017, 10:22
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But we have the original intent when they were minted and then the issuer revised the intent by releasing them into circulation.
nthn
Ingressou: 2 Mar 2015
Publicações: 1895
Publicado: 1 Nov 2017, 15:03
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Publicado: 1 Nov 2017, 15:03
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I think you would have to say "circulating", because they were officially released.
pejounet
Ingressou: 30 Jan 2017
Publicações: 4354
Publicado: 1 Nov 2017, 19:45
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Publicado: 1 Nov 2017, 19:45
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If these were put released into circulation, the coin you're showing would then be "Circulating commemorative coin".
Are there any evidences about the circulation of this coin (official documents, mint statement, etc.)?
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Oklahoman
Numista team
Ingressou: 20 Dez 2015
Publicações: 3063
Publicado: 1 Nov 2017, 20:02
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Publicado: 1 Nov 2017, 20:02
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We have the law authorizing these for sale at a premium to the public. No follow up law existed to place the unsold stock in circulation. This has happened before in the USA. They are not circulating commems. They are commemoratives not intended for circulation that ended up in circulation.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
pejounet
Ingressou: 30 Jan 2017
Publicações: 4354
Publicado: 1 Nov 2017, 21:18
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Publicado: 1 Nov 2017, 21:18
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Citação: "Oklahoman"We have the law authorizing these for sale at a premium to the public. No follow up law existed to place the unsold stock in circulation. This has happened before in the USA. They are not circulating commems. They are commemoratives not intended for circulation that ended up in circulation.
Then in this case, from what I understand, the current way is the right one. They ended up into circulation but just because they were "leftovers", not because of the first minting intent.
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Camerinvs
Ingressou: 19 Mai 2016
Publicações: 5865
Publicado: 2 Nov 2017, 17:01
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Publicado: 2 Nov 2017, 17:01
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Hello all,
I just sent revisions about that coin to Pejounet and the team. At least it needs to be said in the comments section that most of those coins ended up as circulating coins, which I did by quoting a COINage article.
₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.
Camerinvs
Ingressou: 19 Mai 2016
Publicações: 5865
Publicado: 4 Nov 2017, 06:51
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Publicado: 4 Nov 2017, 06:51
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This message is just to let you know that
the page was updated. Have a lôôk.
My thanks to the anonymous Numista referee who validated the changes.
₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.
Oklahoman
Numista team
Ingressou: 20 Dez 2015
Publicações: 3063
Publicado: 4 Nov 2017, 22:22
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Publicado: 4 Nov 2017, 22:22
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the comments section is a great place for this information.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
KennyG
Ingressou: 25 Abr 2010
Publicações: 5110
Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 08:03
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Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 08:03
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Strange, I've seen this coin more often in circulating condition than uncirculated. I'm sure most US collectors would argue it's ultimately a circulating issue.
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
Check out my Facebook, Kenneth Gucyski.
Oklahoman
Numista team
Ingressou: 20 Dez 2015
Publicações: 3063
Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 14:51
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Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 14:51
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I'm sure they would not. Every commemorative issue, from the Isabella quarter, Columbian half, and Lafayette Dollar to recent issues can be found handled. That does not mean the issue should be called a circulating issue. We have law that describes our circulating issues and their circumstances. We also have law that describes and authorizes our commemorative issues. You cant just vote and decide that you or a group of you have opinions that don't follow with the law. How many of these were pocket pieces? How many people became broke and had to spend their collection? Over the years I have found sooooo many commems in circulation. Doesn't mean they are a circulation issue. Honestly I don't know the kind of collectors you do. I am an ANA life member, national show visitor and exhibitor, Summer Seminar attendee and chaperone. I have only heard this ridiculousness in this thread.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Oklahoman
Numista team
Ingressou: 20 Dez 2015
Publicações: 3063
Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 15:14
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Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 15:14
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Most circulation issues, until the modern commemoratives since 1982, were struck according to law, and then turned over to the group requesting the commemorative. A great number were never struck in the full quantity of the law. A number were. Some unsold issues were returned and melted. some were hoarded. Some were returned and then were not melted. Some just appeared in circulation...either by individuals spending coins that had been purchased at a premium, or just spent when they no longer sold to the public. the specific circumstances of the 1892 and 1893 Columbian Expo half are interesting. the half was issued and by law sold for a dollar as a fund raiser. Around 5 million were made. around half of that mintage was returned and melted. of the half left unmelted only some hundred thousands were sold at a premium. Arguments between the Expo, the government, and individuals caused commems to enter circulation. by design? by law? No. Interestingly, when commem issues were returned for remelting, a fee was in place. sometimes if fees were not waived by law, is it possible that unsold issues could be dumped in circulation? zi suppose so. I am not clear, but I think when the Expo board needed funds they also deposited huge numbers of the Expo half into banks as collateral. when circumstances changed banks just issued the "deposited moneys" to the public. Does this make the Expo half a circulating commem? from the human side maybe unintentionally so, from the side of the law? No. I think you have to look at legal intent.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
nthn
Ingressou: 2 Mar 2015
Publicações: 1895
Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 15:30
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Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 15:30
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Agree with Oklahoman. Non circulating.
ALLRED1950
Ingressou: 2 Jul 2012
Publicações: 4940
Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 16:19
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Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 16:19
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Yes I have to agree with Oklahoman, Us ,Americans are ,well just don't know are coins. In change yesterday I got a Ronald Reagan 2016 P dollar. And some time back got 6 2016 P code takers dollars in change. All non-circulating. The odd ones are the frosted one from mint set I have found in my change, Grover Cleveland 2012 S. And a 1998 S 50 cent coin.
The odd thing the Grover Cleveland 2012 S coin has 4 extra lines on the edge. Iam thinking an issue with the edger. They come above the surface


With a weak lettering.
yours daryl
It is, what it is, or is it.
KennyG
Ingressou: 25 Abr 2010
Publicações: 5110
Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 21:31
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Publicado: 5 Nov 2017, 21:31
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Citação: "Oklahoman"How many of these were pocket pieces? How many people became broke and had to spend their collection?
This is the part that convinced me, if the government released the coin with no intent to circulate, by definition it's a non-circulating commem. With the large number I've seen circulated, with poor judgement I assumed the government intended to release the coins as circulating pieces.
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
Check out my Facebook, Kenneth Gucyski.
Oklahoman
Numista team
Ingressou: 20 Dez 2015
Publicações: 3063
Publicado: 6 Nov 2017, 02:50
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Publicado: 6 Nov 2017, 02:50
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Hi Daryl. The raised lines on the edge of your dollar coin could be from the segmented die used to apply the edge lettering. Historically, a Caisting machine would be used to apply the edge before or after the striking of a coin. More recently has the edge applied in segments that close around the planchet and the edge can be applied when the planchet is struck.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Camerinvs
Ingressou: 19 Mai 2016
Publicações: 5865
Publicado: 6 Nov 2017, 18:35
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Publicado: 6 Nov 2017, 18:35
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Agreed, it is a non-circulating issue, but collectors of circulating coins would be right to include them in their collections since it did circulate. That fact can't be ignored, and 50¢ was a lot of money back then:

(from
this site)
So, given the quantity that circulated, those halves made an important contribution to economic life.
₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€.
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